Re: info & physics

Dear Rafael,

I do not want ot go too deeply in these questions. This would pull our
debate to aside.

WE: the observer.

Difficulties of measuring 'quantum objects' (sic!) do not allow to conclude
the non-objectivity of the observed object or the information we gained
from it.

- There is information what we, the observers, the scientists learn from
the objects, and
- there is information what the other objects reflect, recognise (in their
own quality), when they interact with it.
The two may, but in a given case not necessarily, coincide.

When interacting with an other object, a physical object will first
'evaluate' the information it has got from the other object and will
interact with it only if that corresponds to its properties. (It processes
the information.) E.g., a charge recognises the Coulomb field of an other
charge and will interact with it, but will not interact (as a charge) with
a gravitational or a strong field. (This is not a conscious process, this
is a physcial process of information.)

In philosophical terms: any object can reflect its environment only in its
own quality. This statement concerns all beings.

Einstein's equivalence principle is a typical informational principle in
physics. It says, that a given mass, when it 'feels' a force, cannot make
distincion that the source of this effect was an other mass (gravitation)
or an inertia force. In other words: it cannot distinguish two
informations. Here there is no observer, no subject, no "WE", only the
physical masses, forces, and information.

Gyuri

At 14:30 2002.05.14. +0200, you wrote:
>(from: capurro@hdm-stuttgart.de)
>
>Gyuri
>
>your write: "what WE may gain from the
>object". Who/what is this mysterious
>WE that makes so much trouble to
>objectivist science? of course the subject...
>The problem is that objectivist science
>confuses this necessary condition of
>objectivity (as Kant showed...) with
>some kind of 'anything goes'... As war
>as I understood, quantum physics has
>showed the 'part' of the 'subject' in the
>constitution of the (physical) 'object'.
>Trying to eliminate notions such as
>meaning, surprise, intention, expectations...,
>as John proposed, can only lead to a
>new kind of 'newphysicalism' that is no
>more ontologically questionable than
>'newpansychism'. Information has indeed
>samething to do with selection. At the
>semantic level we speak of selection
>(between different meanings of a
>linguistic utterance) AS interpretation.
>This is indeed 'objective' possible because
>language allows (us) this kind of 'play'.
>Instead of loosing 'objectivity' we gain a
>wider (!) range of possibilities. Of course,
>when a cell receives a message brought by,
>say, a DNA-messenger, this is not of the
>same kind of selection we call interpretation
>in the case of (human) language. But we may
>call this 'posting' a message an 'information
>for the cell' (that may 'consider' it to be
>adressed to it or not, according to the structure
>or 'address' of the message).
>kind regards
>Rafael
>
>
> >Dear John,
>
>Thanks for your clarification.
>I incline to reject subjective interpretations of information.
>Accepting your position, I could reinterpret the following two notions:
>Information capacity could be associated with potential information, i.e.,
>the manifold of all possible information, what we may gain from an object.
>Information can - in this sense - be reduced to the actual information,
>what we de facto have gained from that object.
>
>Gyuri
>
>
>____________________________________________________
>Gy�rgy
>Darvas <mailto:>darvasg@helka.iif.hu; <mailto:>h492dar@ella.hu
> http://www.mtakszi.iif.hu/darvas.htm
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___________________________________________________________________
Gyorgy Darvas darvasg@helka.iif.hu; h492dar@ella.hu
                        http://www.mtakszi.iif.hu/darvas.htm
S Y M M E T R I O N http://us.geocities.com/isis_symmetry/ [email protected]
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Received on Tue May 14 15:19:49 2002