Vedr.: Re: information as a selection signs as meaning

Dear all

A comment by S�ren Brier (I suggest that we write this at the top, because it is irritating to have to scroll to the bottom to find out who is writing.)

I have finally had a little time to read through all the parts of the discussion. I want to attract your attention to the fact that my paper attempt to solve many of the problems you are discussion by suggesting: Five levels of existence: 1 Quantum vacuum field. 2. Energy/matter. 3. Information/signals or proto signs. 4. Signs/meaning. 5. Language.

In this way you can follow Stonier in his objective information concept and make it the organizing aspect of nature as Taborsky also wants. Meaning is arising with the living systems as fully triadic signs with meaning are first found with living systems and language with symbols ( see Terrance Deacon: The Symbolic Species) only in humans. Information is still a part of human messages in language.

I suggest then the Peircian objective idealistic pragmatic and evolutionary metaphysical framework that avoids both pan informationism and pan semiotism. It is the only one I can see holding this complexity although I know that many scientists think it is too high a price to pay.

As I do not like the mails to be longer than this I refer you to my paper for further details and arguments.

S�ren Brier, +45 3528 2689

http://www.flec.kvl.dk/personalprofile.asp?id=sbr&p=engelsk

Ed. of Cybernetics & Human Knowing

http://www.imprint-academic.com/C&HK

>>> h492dar@helka.iif.hu 18-05-02 20:24 >>>
Dar Mark,

> This
>principle states that it is possible to consider information only in
>interaction.

Accepting this statement would lead to 2 consequences (if I understood well):
(1) one can get information only in interaction
(2) something (e.g., information) exists only if we have got information
about it.

While I support (1),
I reject (2).
(2) would be valid in Platonistic ontology, (although even some modern
followers of Plato do not support it in this strong form).

Gyuri

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Gy�rgy
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Received on Sun May 19 20:07:39 2002