Re: [Fis] molecular discussion

From: Igor Rojdestvenski <[email protected]>
Date: Fri 11 Jul 2003 - 12:54:58 CEST

Well, Pedro, first of all I apologize for not participating in the
discussions -- life was too dynamic last year. As to my reminiscences on
the old points, which might be slightly out of context, this would be as
follows.

1. Every semiotic system, be it a theory like Euclidian geometry or a
general frame of thinking, is based on axioms (postulates), from which
other properties of this system are derived. The same sets of "natural"
phenomena may be described through different sets of axioms, from which
some are just more convenient and more "common sense", and some are not.

2. Information as such appears to be a concept very difficult to define,
because it is defined through axioms including concepts of space, time,
matter and mind. The contradictions arise mostly between matter and mind,
hence the main question of philosophy -- which is primary and which is
secondary, matter or mind. Here we have to go into very difficult issues
like to what extent the information is material (never existing without
material carrier) and to what extent it is, so to speak, "ideal", i.e.
immaterial -- and it is to a degree immaterial, as the same information may
be conveyed via different material carriers (ink and pen, voice, electric
signals, etc)

3. However life becomes much easier if we set up a different axiomatics, in
which the concept of "information" becomes one of axioms. This relieves us
from the burden of defining WHAT is information, leaving us studying the
PROPERTIES of information. Remember that when Einstein failed to explain
why the speed of light is constant regardless of the frame of reference, he
just postulated that this is so, and obtained all the wonderful results
about PROPERTIES of relative time and space using this as a postulate.

4. I would suggest the following axiomatics.
     A. Information is the primary concept, definable through its
properties. Everything in the material and immaterial world is information.
     B. Information is material. Matter thus becomes a property of
information.
                        There is no information without matter, as
information is produced, transmitted and processed via material substances,
processes and devices.
                        There is no matter without information. We perceive
matter via information exchange, each act of perception, be it sensual
perception or perception through instruments, is an act of information
exchange. Matter that does not exchange information with us does not exist
for us. For example, in the special theory of relativity there is a concept
of "absolute past", "absolute future" and "absolute remote". The latter is
the area in Minkowski space-time from where no information can be ever
received.
     C. Information is ideal. Ideal thus becomes a property of information.
                        There is no information without ideal part. The
SAME information can be produced, transmitted and processed via DIFFERENT
material substances, processes and devices. This includes, as a particular
case, a human observer.
                         There is no ideal without information. Everything
we call ideal or conscious deals with information. Every IDEA as such is
informative. Including ideas formulated by a human observer.
     D. Information is contextual. It is read and processed against an
existing context. A phrase in an unknown language will be differently
understood by people knowing it and not knowing it. An instrument devised
to measure fluctuations of electric fields will not be capable of
processing acoustically transmitted information.
     E. Context is informative. Received information changes the context.
The sequence of bits received by the computer alters its memory, thus
affecting the algorithm of processing of the concomitant sequences of bits.
Reading a book alters the context of human mind, thus altering the
interpretation of concomitant books.
     F. Information possesses the property of recursive embedding. We call
recursive embedding a situation when, for a certain system, its description
is embedded in the system as one of its elements. Examples include:
                        -- A library catalog is, as a physical book, part
of the library.
                        -- A DNA molecule is an encoded description of an
organism. But it is also a molecule, which is included in the biochemistry
of the very cell it describes. By the way, the information in the DNA
molecule is read against the current biochemical content of the cell, as
differen genes are expressed under different conditions.
                        -- a population (species) adapt to environment an,
in a sense, the properties of the species is an encoded description of the
properties of the environment. However, by its very presense, the species
alters the environment and, at the same time becomes part of it. This is
another manifestation of contextuality.
     G. Such a recursive embedding produces infinite recursion, as the
description has to contain itself in the form of description of
corresponding material element. For example, DNA molecule includes a number
of genes that encode its own existence and processing of genes (genes of
DNA polymerases etc).
     H. The realization of this infinite recursion is not instantaneous.
This infinite recursion, i.e. constant reprocessing of information at large
against the context including itself, at different hierarchical levels,
constitutes the process of DEVELOPMENT, the process of EVOLUTION, be it
physical, biological, social or other evolution.

  I hope that those who were able to stay awake through this long and
boring text, will understand what I mean. I wrote some of this in some of
my papers, to which the references can be found at
<http://www.patronov.net/personal/publications.htm>http://www.patronov<http://www.patronov.net/personal/publications.htm>.net/personal/publications.htm

Regards,

Dr. Igor Rojdestvenski,
Dept. Plant Physiology,
Umea university,
Umea 90187,
Sweden
e-mail:
<mailto:igor.rojdestvenski@plantphys.umu.se>igor.rojdestvenski@plantphys.umu<mailto:igor.rojdestvenski@plantphys.umu.se>.se
phone: +46-73-6205020
fax: +46-90-7866676
homepage: <http://www.patronov.net>www.patronov<http://www.patronov.net>.net
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:marijuan@posta.unizar.es>Pedro C.
<mailto:marijuan@posta.unizar.es>Mariju�n
To: <mailto:irojdest@hotmail.com>Igor
<mailto:irojdest@hotmail.com>Rojdestvenski
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Fis] molecular discussion

Igor, why don't you send again to the list those old points --or perhaps
re-elaborate them? It would nicely dovetail the present discussions. best.
---Pedro
Received on Fri Jul 11 12:33:32 2003

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