General Theories and Pragmatics Re: [Fis] Sustainable use of resources

I like your playing with meanings, models, meatphors and meaning, even when
the topic is a survival question which concerns me much since soo long..
looking into cultures and environments...

My question: Did any one of you follow General Systems Theory (GST)
(Bertalanffy) 1968 versus General Model Theory (GMT) 1972.

(Stachowiak)
Stachowiak wrote in the '72 for UNESCO on Scientific THOUGHT (with Beer,
Piaget,....) and later the 5 volumes on Pragmatics in the 70ies and 80ies.

best

heiner

> Dear Loet
>
> The "concrete wall" is by all means a metaphor. What is implied is that
> realization of an upcoming environmental catastrophe was sudden, and it
> occured just 30 years ago, although the catastrophe itself is determined
> by factors built into European cultures ages before that.
>
> Let me suggest that when civilization turned from agriculture to
> industry, it abandoned its ecological 'niche' [which it expanded beyond
> natural limits of a biological species during the previous turn: from
> hunting to agriculture]. Since late 17 century, mining and refining have
> become increasingly important activities, and rate of utilization for
> non-renewable increased ever since. Francis Bacon was one of the first
> to express this shift (as corresponding shift in ideology occured):
> humanity must dominate nature. This idea is, in terms of your posting,
> one of the eigenvalues of contemporary civilization, enforced by a
> comparative efficiency of European civilization compared to other,
> non-industrialized, countries (remember that 19th century Europeans
> considered other civilizations, even as ancient as Indian and Chinese,
> non-civilized or barbarian, for which the best it would be to accept
> values and knowledge of Europe).
>
> Industrialization was an inevitable result of capitalism, an offspring
> of medival European culture and values. And environmental threats,
> especially 'limits to growth' issue, are inevitable for a society where
> industry is growing. As I recall from corresponding caluclations,
> existing utilization of resources poses at risk not only non-renewable
> energy sources, but also dozens of other minerals, some of them to last
> no more than 50 years. No "post-industrial revolution" can resolve the
> crisis, because natural consumption of resources is not reduced, and it
> is supported by demand of "golden billion" to increase their quality of
> life [or, values inside the contemporary civilization, intrinsically
> European values].
>
> A growing understanding of these threats inside a society, or
> introduction of new "meanings", is the only way to change "values", or
> dominating (and most valued) types of behavior inside a society.
> Governments can support this process (organized shift), but it will be
> unstable until it becomes mass-like: thus, environmental care should
> become a key social value - which is not as easy as it may sound,
> because it fundamentally contradicts some existing values, such as value
> of consumption [expressed by neoclassical economists as "maximization of
> consumer utility function"]. Whether this may happen, and contradiction
> may be resolved, is not clear. To achieve self-organized criticality, a
> system must first run into critical condition, and the crisis is not
> there yet, it is only predicted (and therefore I can join Pedro's
> scepticism that values can be shaken).
>
> Pavel
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loet Leydesdorff [mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 15:05
> To: ����� ����� ��������;
> fis@listas.unizar.es
> Subject: RE: [Fis] Sustainable use of resources
>
>
> Dear Pavel,
>
> I agree that information can only have a "value" or a "meaning" with
> reference to a structure. Using the model of autopoiesis the information
> is produced within one or more communication systems. These systems
> contain structure (redundancy) since otherwise they would be "dead". One
> expect the "value" to be shaped in the longer run with reference to the
> eigenvectors of the network. (Thus, values can be different in different
> systems.) The eigenvectors can function as the axes of codification
> insofar as they are stabilized over time.
>
> "Meaning" adds a reflexive element to the dynamic. While "value" can
> historically be stabilized, "meaning" globalizes from a hindsight
> perspective because we are also able to abandon previous values. The
> communication of meaning adds another layer to the system (as you note).
>
>
> I am less clear about what you mean with a concrete wall. I assume that
> this is a metaphor. In fully developed evolutionary systems it tends to
> be always "five for twelve". This can also be considered as
> self-organized criticality (on the edge of chaos).
>
> With kind regards,
>
>
> Loet
>
>

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