Re: [Fis] Meaningful Information vs Information

Viktoras
Yes, I agree that meaning is a property of information. But in the sense
of an information generated by a specific system submitted to a
constraint (the MGS). Information may not have this property:
information can be meaningless.
Consequently, I find it more difficult to support the statement that
"meaning is equivalent to information", because many information
are meaningless. However, a meaningless information received by a
system submmitted to a constraint can trigger the generation of a
meaningful information within that system.
Take the noise of thunderstorm. It is a meaningless information, but it
can participate to the generation of some meaningful information. When
a system sumitted to the constraint "stay dry" receives such meaningless
information as the noise of thunderstorm, that system will generate
internally a meaningful information "rain is comming with risk of getting
wet". And the system will implement an action related to the satisfaction
of the constraint (find a shelter).
Regarding the relations between information and signal you seem to be
interested in, let me add hereunder the answer to Loet's off list
note. Loet wrote, answering my first note :

Yes! With the one objection that a meaning is not an information. It
can be communicated as an information. This is off-list (since I am over
my quota).
With kind regards,
Loet

Answer to Loet:
Well, I think that a meaning is always a meaningful information,
understanding that an information can be memorized or transmitted,
and that an information is always carried by a signal.
A text in a closed book is memorized information (the printed
characters). The text we are reading from a book is transmitted
information (the photons reaching our eyes). In both cases,
information is carried by a signal, calling signal any variation of
energy (ex: sound vibration like noise or voice; electromagnetic
field change like light; chemical diffusion like odour; presence of
an element like ink, protein,..).
And in both cases, information can be meaningful or not.
The stain on the page comming from paper poor quality, is not a
meaningful information. Printed text on the page is meaningful information.
But we need to be careful when trying to identify the constraint existing
in a Meaning Generator System.
For a (rather) simple system like a paramecium, the constraint is "stay alive".
For human, constraints are very many and not correctly understood up to
now (what are the constraints of the book writer when writing ? This subject
is close to psychology of motivation and to nature of the mind where our
knowledge is pretty poor).
All the best
Christophe

Selon Viktoras Didziulis <viktoras.didziulis@sci.fi>:

> Hi, Christophe, Group
>
> Just a short remark.
> Maybe it would be more correct to say that meaning is a property of
> information (or sign(al))... Without this property information (or sign(al))
> is just a noise... Or can one say that meaning is equivalent to information
> ? Then what is an equivalent of noise ?..
>
> Best wishes
> Viktoras
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: crmenant@free.fr
> Date: 2004 m. vasaris 09 d. 12:15:23
> To: fis@listas.unizar.es
> Subject: [Fis] Meaningful Information vs Information
>
>
> 1) A meaning is an information. It is a meaningful information.
>
>
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Received on Tue Feb 10 22:01:12 2004