Re: [Fis] meaning of meaning

Dear Shu-Kun

I think that 3. has the most sophisticated and complex meaning. There
are layers of meaning in it. Many possible interpretations. It is very
rich.

"Dr. Shu-Kun Lin" wrote:
>
> Dear Pedro,
>
> Let me prepare the following three paragraphs as a possible message sent
> to my daughter who will go to college soon. Paragraph 1 has the same
> M as 2. Paragraph 2 has about the same I as 2. The meaning is
> "Study science, no art". Paragraph 3 is meaningless.
> M is already in the title (a good title) or at least in the abstract
> of a scientific paper. A meaning can be a unit vector. Many meanings
> (short and clear statements) can span a space. Vector algebra can be used.
>
> 1. Study science, no art. Study science, no art. Study science, no art.
> Study science, no art. Study science, no art. Study science, no art!
> Study science, no art. Study science, no art. Study science, no art!
> Study science, no art. Study science, no art. Study science, no art!
>
> 2. Science is great. Actually good scientists are creating arts, real
> arts. Only crazy people like art. Now the fashionable post-impressionism arts
> are emperor's new clothes. In science this never happens, except
> Prigogine's entropy theory which I believe is a kind of post-impressionism.
>
> 3. Ask me for a suggestion what to learn? It depends. Science is great.
> It is also bad. Art is great. Art is also bad. Ask your mother. Think about
> it yourself. I will think about it after drinking a bottle of strong
> whisky. Sometimes I like both. I hate to say it, bur I really do not know.
>
> For paragraph 1 the message can be compressed easily. Therefore it has
> less information (I), as information is defined as the amount of data compressed.
> Hope this can illustrate M<I<D. A paragraph difficult to compress maybe
> meaningless: a paragraph keyed in by a dog cannot be compressed.
> I sent paragraph 3 to my daughter.
>
> Shu-Kun
>
> Pedro C. Mariju�n wrote:
>
> > Dear FISers
> >
> > Quite many interesting directions are explored during these days.
> > Although we cannot 'meaningfully' advance all of them, at least they
> > will remain as dormant seeds for future periods of calm. In what follows
> > I respond to a few points.
> >
> > Shu-Kun: Your suggestion about some numerical relationship between
> > Message, Information and Meaning (M<I<D) is very difficult to ascertain
> > in general (first of all, under what type of 'bounds' could one think
> > about it?). There was a very intriguing point by Efim Liberman on the
> > entropy constraints related to enzyme size where a germane consideration
> > was raised, I think. Also, Landauer's principle on energy expenditure
> > associated to 'information erasing' is another important direction to
> > think about. In a private discussion with Xerman, we were thinking on
> > inviting you and Angel Vegas to compare how a 'chunk' of living matter
> > responds to a signaling event (and reorganizes itself) and how a piece
> > of solid state alloy 'signaled' (perturbed) by a laser reorganizes
> > non-destructively its own structural elements. It is a divertimento and
> > we do not to imply any big conclusions at all --but to highlight some of
> > the 'info' differences in the response to perturbation between the
> > animate and the inanimate... Hopefully in next fis discussions oriented
> > toward 'information and entropy' we shall deal in depth with these
> > matters. (en passant, has anyone read Tom Siegfried on the new physics
> > of information? "The Bit and the Pendulum" 2000. Could we revise and
> > refocus our attempts on an axiomatics of Information Physics, again
> > --don�t you think, Igor, Shu-Kun, John and other parties?).
> >
> > To Soeren: I appreciate your comments on Wiener, Shannon, and
> > particularly on Bateson. In actuality I do not feel much close to them,
> > as the road I try to advance is the 'molecular approach to meaning'.
> > Like in the arguments on autopoieisis, I bring molecularly based points,
> > but they are left unresponded or lightly commented at another level --I
> > do not complain about your views at all, and I really appreciate the
> > comments, the problem is the absence in this discussion of molecularly
> > interested parties. Meaning is ALSO a molecular problem, and to my
> > chagrin this part of the bioinformation and semiotic 'galaxy' has left
> > almost unexplored. You will understand better what I mean if we go to
> > the 50's, before the molecular explanation of HEREDITY advanced by
> > Watson and Crick (reductionist? functionalist? cynermetic?). Of course,
> > 'reducing' heredity only to that view would be myopic, but even more
> > myopic would be to dismiss the molecular approach to it... In any case,
> > I accept the challenge of stating the fundamentals of signaling and
> > meaning at the molecular level (at least, summarizing what I can gather
> > at the time being).
> >
> > to Rafael, Jim, Viktoras and other parties: living a 'meaningful' life
> > is a crucial piece in some sociological and philosophical approaches
> > --what 'cultures' attempt more or less. Do the arts contribute to the
> > 'missing' meaning that our pan-socialized ways of life fail to convey?
> > Do the arts detect the relevant 'absences' in our lives and fabricate ad
> > hoc information --channeled toward the 'desserts' and the enigmatic inside?
> >
> > best
> >
> > Pedro
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > fis mailing list
> > fis@listas.unizar.es
> > http://webmail.unizar.es/mailman/listinfo/fis
> >
>
> --
> Dr. Shu-Kun Lin
> Molecular Diversity Preservation International (MDPI)
> Matthaeusstrasse 11, CH-4057 Basel, Switzerland
> Tel. +41 61 683 7734 (office)
> Tel. +41 79 322 3379 (handy)
> Fax +41 61 302 8918
> E-mail: lin@mdpi.org
> http://www.mdpi.org/lin/
>
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