Re: [Fis] A definition of Information (II)

  
Dear Pedro, Stan
 
Nevertheless, I would think there are many examples of these 'Maxwellian
demons' working in biological or technological systems. Let's take as an
example the control of circulation of H+, Na+, K+ ions between cells and
their environments. I would think any process with cybernetic control
mechanism in fact implies 'a working' case of the 'Maxwelian demon'. That's
also why temperature of our bodies is always 36-37 deg. Celsius and does not
fluctuate (much) because of changes in temperature of our environments
meanwhile the 2nd law acts so as to minimize this difference. Any cybernetic
system (body/machine) tries to evade the second law. And meaningful
information is
needed for its control. Thus the 2nd law plays here a very important role -
it has to be resisted by a system and therefore evaded. And some biological
systems
are very succesfull at this. For example colonies of hydroids is an example
of
multicellular immortality. They do not experience natural death, they can
only be
killed by external forces, environmental conditions, predators. Also
bacterial
cells do not senesce, but their lives rely on conditions of the environment
they live in.
 
 
Best regards
Viktoras
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: Stanley N. Salthe
Date: 2004 m. kovas 08 d. 01:11:01
To: fis-listas.unizar.es
Subject: Re: [Fis] A definition of Information (II)
 
Pedro here (below) points out the importance of erasure in information
systems. Without this, systems would senesce very much faster than they
do. I would just point out that it is the necessity for erasure that
prevents the possibility of there being a Maxwellian Demon, who tries to
evade the SEcond Law!
 
STAN
 
 
>Dear colleagues,
>
>Thanks to Stan, Viktoras and others for their recent comments. About the
>discussion on entropy and information, I think better that we reserve our
>best ammunition for the next weeks (around beginnings of April), when we
>will start the new session in a more or less organized way. In particular,
>I much appreciate the coherence of Stan's views (and other parties') about
>the entropic theme in biology, but at the same time I strongly feel that a
>new point of view is needed. The pervasive phenomenon (protein, cellular,
>neuronal, economic, cultural), biologically rooted, of massively getting
>rid of un-adaptive parts --parts which are perfectly healthy in themselves
>concerning their functioning-- has only been known in biology in the 90's
>(protein degradation in proteasomes, apoptosis, rhythms of synaptic growth
>and decay). It is amazing that it has been left largely out of theoretical
>focus. In my opinion, as I have argued too often in this list, the
>resulting 'evanescent permanence' of the living is at the very center of
>its 'informability', the capacity to alter the own structure after some
>signal has been received, implying both synthesis and degradation of
>components (the global coupling of the communicational, structural and
>generative forms of cellular information). In other words, thorugh protein
>synthesis/degradation, we would be talking about the very fabric of meaning
>at the biomolecular level...
>
>Of course, I just point out the amazing parallel among all those realms,
>and have not found the analytical keys at all. At least one has to put into
>brackets the usual view of conflating this emerging (and un-analyzed) form
>of dynamics with the workings of the 'entropic hands', the norm almost
>everywhere (let us remember the discussions on ecological economics). This
>does not mean that I attack the enormous importance that thermodynamic
>entropy deserves at the micro-meso and macro levels (and also of other
>forms of entropy as argued in this list).
>
>Let me conclude by putting things into colorful writing. The divine
>Pantheon should be presided by the serene beauty of Gaia (the Greek Goddess
>of Life on Earth), caught in a romantic triangle with Oknos (the Egypcian
>rope-maker, the God of agile fingers endowed with the wonders of "molecular
>recognition") and Kali (the jealous, irate Hindu Goddess, of powerful but
>stumped hands that disperses everything)... I promise not to indulge in
>further theologies.
>
>best regards
>
>Pedro
>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Mon Mar 8 15:36:17 2004