Re: [Fis] The timings of meaning

As I see it then Ted Gorenson's and Robert Ulanowicz general approaches
stands for the two opposite paradigms we have discussed. 1. One that
want to introduce the concept of communication into nature such as the
biosemioticians and 2. one that wants to fit an information concept into
the existing materialistic mechanistic view of nature that science so
far has build on. Many of these have partly acknowledged Prigogine's
claim for a paradigm of complexity and irreversibility opposing material
mechanicism, but they still view nature as dead and rules by universal
laws of nature. Some add an idea of systems, evolution and emergence on
this view, using the emergence idea to explain the creation of life,
first person experience and later consciousness. To me emergence is a
description not a (causal) explanation.

Robert Ulanowicz wrote:
>
> On Thu, 25 Mar 2004, Ted Goranson wrote:
>
> > It is my impression that the reason for FIS to exist is to explore the
> > relatively new idea that there is a discourse of sorts among chemical
> > entities and similarly among physical ones; that the nature of the
> > "information" of this discourse needs to be induced (taking out the
> > human observer); and further that if some new, non-human based notion of
> > information can be distilled then universal mechanics of such things as
> > evolution and emergent behavior can be usefully applied across many
> > disciplines.
>
> Hello Everyone!
>
> I'm new to this listserv and worry that I may rework some grounds that you
> all have plowed before. Nevertheless, I can't resist a few words on the
> issue as Ted has stated it:
>
> For the past 30 or so years I have been engaged in the application of IT
> to ecosystems flow networks. From the very outset I was struck by the want
> of any necessity to invoke the communications theory format of sender-
> channel- receiver. It appears that at least the Shannon formulation is
> applicable in situations so removed from the cognitive scene that some
> more general perspective on information must be possible -- much like
> Popper generalizes physical forces as "propensities".
>
> What has worked very well for me in studying ecosystem networks of trophic
> exchanges has been the notion that information can be regarded as embedded
> constraint. Without going into analytical details (e.g., J. Semiotics,
> Evolution, Energy and Development. 2[1]:38-55), one can readily visualize
> that within each node of the network are unspecified, hidden constraints
> that channel flow toward or away from other receiver nodes. Just as in
> thermodynamics it is not necessary to know the molecular details to
> quantify the overall properties, one may apply Shannon measures to the
> network (a weighted digraph) and quantify the overall degree of constraint
> that is active in the network as a whole. (It turns out to be gauged by
> the average mutual information of the flow structure [Int. J. Syst. Sci.
> 15: 261-270 {1984}].)
>
> So from my perspective, at least, trying to force the flow networks into
> the sender- channel- receiver- alphabet matrix would be a procrustean
> exercise at best.
>
> I'm looking forward to learning a lot on such topics from you all.
>
> Regards,
> Bob
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Robert E. Ulanowicz | Tel: (410) 326-7266
> Chesapeake Biological Laboratory | FAX: (410) 326-7378
> P.O. Box 38 | Email <ulan@cbl.umces.edu>
> 1 Williams Street | Web <http://www.cbl.umces.edu/~ulan>
> Solomons, MD 20688-0038 |
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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