Re: [Fis] Information and communication

From: Viktoras Didziulis <[email protected]>
Date: Thu 20 May 2004 - 16:06:23 CEST

 Michel, (sorry for not responding to you direct question earlier),

if we seriously consider all the 4 dimensions of our space-time continuum
(or maybe discontinuum) as proved by Einstein and others, then all the
existing systems are realized as spatio-temporal structures and existence
of a purely non-dynamical structure has no sense in the real world as it
would not exist in time. Next, - if we consider the time just as "one more
axis" in the 4 dimensional space, it starts to make no fundamental
difference whether communication happens in space or in time. In fact, no
system emerge "finally and at once" - just as "flash-and-done" and remains
static without no function, but, instead, structure of every natural or
artificial system emerges step-by-step as a result of a communication
processes in time. I.e. all structures/systems either grow, evolve or are
constructed over a period of time - all they are communication re-projected
from temporal to spatial dimensions. Thus the order can be explained in
frames of communication theory as a successful or meaningful communication
either in time or in space - axis makes no difference. Any real-world
structure of a system as communication in space, is always supplemented by
its functioning - communication in time. A good example would be ergodic
systems - one can replace the time average (of some property) by an average
taken over all members of the ensemble frozen at a particular time and still
see "the same thing".

Let's take a text as an example system. Printed text is nothing more then a
frozen" communication, and it takes time to emerge (be written) as a result
of thoughts or communication among people which happens in time. In order to
be understood - the printed text has to be "unfrozen" i.e. re-projected back
to communication in time by reading it. Text in books is a spatial structure
 but reading of a book "takes" time. What is the order then ? Now imagine
the book of more than 500 pages with random words :) Nobody will read it as
it has no meaning, purpose, function, sense... It will no have context -
value in the "surrounding world". Book written with grammatical errors would
be something in between sense and nonsense. More time has to be spent to
read and understand correctly what is communicated through it. The same is
true for the DNR in systems made of living cells.

This approach would also make a big difference between a living cow and the
dead one, or between a clock and a smashed clock :) or just any other
functioning vs. broken system.

The example with the book seems to nicely explain
order/meaning/function/communication relations. So I would complete
referencing to Einstein's thoughts again:
"We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered
to the ceiling with books in many different tongues. The child knows that
someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It does
not understand the languages in which they are written. But the child notes
a definite plan in the arrangement of the books; a mysterious order it does
not comprehend, but only dimly suspects..."

Best regards
Viktoras





-------Original Message-------
 
From: Michel Petitjean
Date: 2004 m. gegu�� 19 d. 00:53:12
To: fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: [Fis] Information and communication
 
To: <fis@listas.unizar.es>
Subject: [Fis] Information and communication
 
Dear FISers,
 
Several postings appear about communication, related to information,
interactions, order/disorder, etc...
Actually, it would be useful to specify which kind of model is used:
does the interaction or communication between two entities is static,
(no time, just a channel) or is it dynamic, i.e. it takes an amount
of time ? It is not obvious when the second model is used. Afterall,
Shannon formula is attached to a distribution (no time), not to
a stochastic process.
Finally, I asked again my question about order/disorder/chaos:
is there a definition valid in the "static" case (no time) ?
 
Michel Petitjean Email: petitjean@itodys.jussieu.fr
Editor-in-Chief of Entropy entropy@mdpi.org
ITODYS (CNRS, UMR 7086) ptitjean@ccr.jussieu.fr
1 rue Guy de la Brosse Phone: +33 (0)1 44 27 48 57
75005 Paris, France. FAX : +33 (0)1 44 27 68 14
http://www.mdpi.net http://www.mdpi.org
http://petitjeanmichel.free.fr/itoweb.petitjean.html
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Received on Thu May 20 05:57:45 2004

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