Re: [Fis] Information and communication

Viktoras and colleagues,

I applaud the beautiful argument presented below concerning the central
roles of time an communication in all processes resulting in pattern
construction. I have recently perceived an increasing use of the term
"order for free", which I think was originally coined by Stuart
Kauffman, but I think there is some confusion over the scope of this
idea. I personally think it is an appropriate description of the
behavior of a cellular automaton model when a simple set of updating
rules for individual cells results in surprising macroscopic patterns
(e.g., the formation of "gliders" in the game of life). However, the
macroscopic patterns in this case are not actually a "result" in the
sense of physical causation. In fact, the rules implied the
macroscopic patterns at the outset. They were only surprising because
we did not recognize the implications of the rules until we ran the CA
simulation. The notion of "order for free" is sometimes applied to
physical, self-organizing systems, which I think is misguided. The
construction of physical pattern must always require time and
communication, as Viktoras argued, and always requires the doing of
work. It is never "order for free" because the cost of work must
always be paid.

It is interesting (at least to me) to consider the phenomenon of
construction done by an individual human, as in the writing of a book
or the creation of a painting. These are certainly modes of pattern
generation, and they require both time and work; but one could ask
"where is the communication?" given that there is only one individual
involved. My answer would be that these processes depend on internal
communication among agents of cognition inside the head of the
creators. I think we are all familiar with, and rather skilled at
orchestrating this internal dialogue.

Best Wishes,

Guy Hoelzer

On May 20, 2004, at 7:06 AM, Viktoras Didziulis wrote:

>
> if we seriously consider all�the 4 dimensions of our space-time
> continuum (or maybe discontinuum) as�proved by Einstein and others,
> then all�the existing�systems�are�realized as �spatio-temporal
> structures and existence of a purely non-dynamical structure has no
> sense in the real world as it�would not�exist in time. Next, - if we
> consider the time just as "one more axis" in the 4 dimensional space,
> it starts to make no fundamental difference whether communication
> happens in space�or in time. In fact,�no system emerge "finally and at
> once" - just as "flash-and-done" and remains static without no
> function, but,�instead,�structure of every natural or
> artificial�system emerges step-by-step as a result of a�communication
> processes�in time. I.e. all structures/systems either grow, evolve or
> are constructed over a period of time�- all they are�communication
> re-projected from�temporal to spatial�dimensions.�Thus the order can
> be explained�in frames of communication theory as�a successful or
> meaningful�communication either in time�or in�space - axis makes
> no�difference. Any real-world structure of a system as�communication
> in space, is always supplemented by its functioning - communication in
> time. A good example would be ergodic systems -�one can replace the
> time average (of some property)�by an average taken over all members
> of the ensemble frozen at a particular time and still�see "the same
> thing".
> �
> Let's take a text as an example system. Printed text is nothing more
> then a "frozen" communication, and it takes time to emerge (be
> written) as a result of thoughts or communication among people which
> happens in time. In order to be understood -�the printed text has to
> be "unfrozen" i.e.�re-projected back to communication in time by
> reading it. Text in books�is a spatial�structure, but reading of a
> book "takes" time. What is the order then ? Now imagine the book of
> more than 500 pages�with random�words :) Nobody will read it as it has
> no meaning, purpose, function, sense... It will no have context
> -�value�in the "surrounding world". Book written with grammatical
> errors would be something in between sense and nonsense. More time has
> to be spent to read and understand correctly what is
> communicated�through it. The same is�true for the DNR in systems made
> of living cells.
> �
> This approach would also make a big difference between a living cow
> and the dead one, or between a clock and a smashed clock :) or just
> any other functioning�vs. broken system.
> �
> The�example�with the�book seems to nicely�explain
> order/meaning/function/communication relations. So I would
> complete�referencing to�Einstein's�thoughts again:
> "We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are
> covered to the ceiling with books in many different tongues. The child
> knows that someone must have written these books. It does not know who
> or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are
> written. But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the
> books; a mysterious order it does not comprehend, but only dimly
> suspects..."

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Received on Tue May 25 20:20:03 2004