Dear John H
We are much on the same line in your arguments here. This is why I tend to
go on searching for more comprehensive paradigms that can take into account
the inner and social aspect of human endeavor and I guess why Stan turned
pansemiotician. At http://uk.cbs.dk/content/view/full/9710 under
publication in the right-hand upper corner I have placed the full text of my
latest paper on this, which is to go into the FIS conference in Paris, where
I argue shortly for my complains about the insufficiency of the other
theories in covering the full range of human existence and causalities.
Venlig hilsen / Best wishes
Søren Brier
Copenhagen Business School , Management, Politics and Philosophy,
Bl�g�rdsgade 23B, DK-K�benhavn 2200 N.
Office-phone +45 3815 2208 Cell 28564282
Old home page with full text documents
http://www.flec.kvl.dk/personalprofile.asp?id=sbr&p=engelsk
Ed. in Chief of Cybernetics & Human Knowing : home page:
http://www.imprint-academic.com/C&HK
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es] P�
vegne af John Holgate
Sendt: 20. maj 2005 06:54
Til: rmemery@earthlink.net; Pedro Marijuan
Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es
Emne: RE: [Fis] leteral comment
Richard,
As your namesake's character Randy Mandy might have said about the Second
Law - "Ooh, you are awful, but I like you".
If the physicists amongst us can cobble a viable and sustainable global
economy out of entropic theory I'd like to see that - more power to their
intriguing elbows.
However, it may be the 'Arrow of Information' model dominant in the social
sciences - data contextualised into information applied as knowledge and
filtered into wisdom and intelligence - (or the myriad of 'brown shoe'
models outside the order/disorder paradigm) prove equally sustainable.
If all the world's entropy enthusiasts are laid end to end they may not
reach finality.
Is all human thought a slave to the Second Law? C'est la question. I'm
agnostic about that.
John H
-----Original Message-----
From: fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es
[mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es]On Behalf Of Richard Emery
Sent: Friday, 20 May 2005 4:22
To: Pedro Marijuan
Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: RE: [Fis] leteral comment
Pedro et al.:
Once upon a time in America the comedian George Gobel was on Johnny Carson's
TV show ,sitting next to Bob Hope and Dean Martin, and he paused seriously,
looked straight into the camera, and asked: "Did you ever get the feeling
the whole world is a black tuxedo and you're a brown pair of shoes?"
That's what I feel when I read this exceptional forum. Thanks!
Richard Emery
> [Original Message]
> From: Pedro Marijuan <marijuan@unizar.es>
> To: <fis@listas.unizar.es>
> Date: 5/19/2005 8:51:18 AM
> Subject: [Fis] leteral comment
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> Let me produce a lateral comment after these intense preliminary rounds.
>
> I would say that numeorous aspects of the current discussion have
> taken a dubious turn around the entropy-cul-de-sac (but given that at
> least half dozen "sinners" have been indulging in pressing
towards
> that corner I
have
> no hope!). Rather than being "wrong" the emphasis on entropy
makes the
> discussion be "irrelevant"; and the mixing of metaphoric uses
with
literal
> ones adds further rations of arbitrarity in the discourse.
>
> Economy is not a domain of energies and entropies but of information
> and knowledge --entirely within the symbolic realm. Only one species
> among 10 millions on Earth (over 40 or 50 millions?) has developed
> such sumperimposed world of "economy". Why? Just for the same
> entropy/energy "reasons" applying to any happenstance? One
needs a
> robust language, artificial ecosystems, a counting system, a
> socialization network, elementary institutions, etc., in order than
> one can progressively assist to the emergence of universal
> equivalents, currencies, values, markets, "economic networks",
> cultures, etc., and realize the growth of social complexity
> interspersed with periods of crisis, conflicts, potential collapse,
> etc. It is a whole matter which essentially derives from
"social
> processing" activities performed by intelligent, conscious
individuals.
The
> economic world advances at the same historical pace with the social
> accumulation of knowledge, and the great inventions that have changed
> the economic world are all "cognizing": writing, codices,
printing
> press,
sci.
> method, engines, computers... (yes, even engines themselves may be
> seen
as
> information & knolwedge "crystallizations" ---se Stonier).
Not only
today's
> economies are "knolwdege based" ---all of them have always
been; and
> all historical human societies have been "information
societies".
>
> Unfortunately, social information is misunderstood yet (and
> pragmatically mistreated by social disciplines). How could one run a
> discussion on computing &software in entropy grounds?, not much
> practically indeed. The same are we trying here, treating the
"soft"
> with merely the concepts of the "hard", with an arbitrary
concoction.
> Today, the physicalist cult is in-built in most ways of thinking
> yet--and it leads to a ping-pong game that obliterates the emergence
> of more multimensional, multidisciplinary reflections, badly needed
> for the extraordinary problems ahead: The new "invisible hand"
needed
previously demands a conceptual revolution.
>
> Apologies for all this info-fundamentalist preaching. And thanks to
> both chairs for their recent responses--with a lot of good stuff to
> ponder. I will return to the mainstream, but always rebellious against
> the
cornering
> by entropy enthusiasts!
>
> all the best
>
> Pedro
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fis mailing list
> fis@listas.unizar.es
> http://webmail.unizar.es/mailman/listinfo/fis
_______________________________________________
fis mailing list
fis@listas.unizar.es
http://webmail.unizar.es/mailman/listinfo/fis
SOUTH EASTERN SYDNEY AND ILLAWARRA AREA HEALTH SERVICE CONFIDENTIALITY
NOTICE
This email, and the files transmitted with it, are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you are not the intended recipient, you are not permitted to distribute
or use this email or any of its attachments in any way. We also request that
you advise the sender of the incorrect addressing.
This email message has been virus-scanned. Although no computer viruses were
detected, South Eastern Sydney and Illawarra Area Health Service accept no
liability for any consequential damage resulting from email containing any
computer viruses.
_______________________________________________
fis mailing list
fis@listas.unizar.es
http://webmail.unizar.es/mailman/listinfo/fis
_______________________________________________
fis mailing list
fis@listas.unizar.es
http://webmail.unizar.es/mailman/listinfo/fis
Received on Fri May 20 13:02:23 2005
