Dear Shu-Kun,
yes, you have pointed out that a PATTERN does not constitute information. If the quality-place
matches (which are the information in the sense heretofore /<such> is <there>/) are
predictable, they cannot be otherwise (therefore they do not constitute information). The trick
Nature uses (and we too, as humans) is that the match happens not by quality-place but by
quality-numerosity (<such> are <so many>). Qualities (and their concentrations) are not
that subject to compression, because, lacking spatial characteristics, the least drop contains as
many info as the whole bathtub.
Thanks again for bringing up PATTERNS.
Karl
>
> Von: Shu-Kun Lin <lin@mdpi.org>
> Datum: 2005/08/31 Mi AM 10:15:15 CEST
> An: Juan G Roederer <juan.roederer@gi.alaska.edu>
> Cc: kj04@chello.at, Dupagement@aol.com, Julio Stern
<jmstern@hotmail.com>,
> ssalthe@mail.binghamton.edu, fis@listas.unizar.es
> Betreff: Re: What is the definition of information ?
>
> Dear Juan,
>
> I reply my part:
> > Data compressed---seems related to the concept of algorithmic
> > information. But what is the definition of "data"?
>
> What is data? Data are the things which are or can be
> recorded in notebooks, photo plates,
> magnetic tapes or floppy disks, or hard disks, in the amount
> with unit like bytes. If the data can be compressed to a size much
> smaller, we say the original data does not have much
"information".
>
> If there are symmetries in a structure, the data representing that
> structure can be compressed. E.g., a picture has nothing on it
> (white everywhere) has very high symmetry and little information.
>
> Best regards,
> Shu-Kun
>
>
>
>
> Juan G Roederer wrote:
> > Dear Colleagues:
> >
> > For some time I have tried to post a message to the FIS list,
without
> > success. I get all the messages but cannot send any out. So for the
time
> > being I will respond only to those who have participated in the
current
> > exchange. The message I wanted to post is the following:
> >
> > In view of the various definitions of information that are beginning
to
> > circulate, time has come to announce the recent publication of my
book
> > "Information and its Role in Nature" by Springer-Verlag,
Heidelberg (May
> > 2005). It addresses in detail the question at hand in all its
facets:
> > classical and quantum information theory, biomolecular and neural
> > systems, and the human brain. It is available from
springeronline.com,
> > amazon.com, etc.; the Table of Contents and Introduction can be
> > downloaded from my web page <http://www.gi.alaska.edu/~Roederer>
> >
> > The main thoughts I try to convey in my book are, inter alia: (i) we
> > need a concept of information that represents what information does,
not
> > what it is "made of", or "how much" there is of
it; (ii) information can
> > be defined objectively, independently of human actions and
> > human-generated devices, only in the biological realm and for those
> > inanimate artifacts that are made by a living system; (iii) this
concept
> > cannot be defined in just one short sentence; and (iv) information
as
> > such plays no active role in natural purely physical systems, i.e.,
it
> > doesn't "do" anything out there---force fields do (e.g.,
the relation
> > with entropy is in a physicist's brain). Once you have glanced
through
> > the book, or read it, I shall be much obliged for any comments and
> > criticism, whether constructive or destructive!
> >
> > Concerning some of the definitions offered in the current
discussion, I
> > have a few comments:
> >
> > Reduction of uncertainty---what exactly is the definition of
> > "uncertainty"? How would this apply to the information
expressed, say,
> > by a genome?
> >
> > Constraints to entropy production---seems to me the same as
reduction of
> > uncertainty, but it certainly is a more precise formulation for
certain
> > systems in certain situations.
> >
> > Data compressed---seems related to the concept of algorithmic
> > information. But what is the definition of "data"?
> >
> > Points out one alternative among many---this is the usual definition
> > given in general science books, but again, how does this apply to
> > molecular biology?
> >
> > Property of conveying meaning---what exactly is the definition of
> > "meaning"? This, however, does relate to the concept of
"purpose" (of
> > causing a change that otherwise would not occur or occur only by
> > chance). This, in particular, is discussed in detail in my book.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Juan
> >
> > PS: Forgive me, if you receive the present message again later;
maybe my
> > posting problem will be fixed soon.
> >
> > Juan G. Roederer
> > Professor of Physics Emeritus
> > Geophysical Institute
> > University of Alaska-Fairbanks
> >
> > Web Page: www.gi.alaska.edu/~Roederer
> >
> >
> >
>
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Received on Wed Aug 31 14:29:33 2005
