SV: [Fis] Re: What is the definition of information ?

Dear Steven

I really wonder what "mechanical interpretation" could be, because interpretation I my vocabulary has mind a prerequisite and needs a triadic semiosis as C.S. Peirce defines it.

To think that "state" is objectively given is also a problem for me. Defining any 'state' is an epistemological process and demands semiosis.

But I agree that if we agree on such a states differences, we can start as taking them for 'given' and be the difference we from a certain point of interest (differences that makes difference) can become information for something through a coding. This information has a quantitative aspect, which we can use mathematical information theory on.

   Søren

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es] P� vegne af Steven Ericsson Zenith
Sendt: 1. september 2005 19:08
Til: fis-listas.unizar.es
Emne: Re: [Fis] Re: What is the definition of information ?

The argument that information is the "difference that makes a difference" - which has been especially popular in recent years - troubles me. It requires either a blending of discernment that I simply cannot accept at this level, or it fails to describe the zero sum game.

Nor can I accept the argument given here that data is information - I think you are confusing two distinct things.

>From my point of view, there is "state" - and one might describe state and call the description "data." In any system of states then "information" is the difference between any two - and one might use descriptions of these states (datum) and a system of logic to reason about the difference. A collection of such differences then allows us to consider "patterns of information."

Neither "state," "information" nor "patterns" in these definitions require any complexity to be involved in an interpretation - a mechanical interpretation is sufficient.

"Recognition" (as opposed to "comparison") is a process of complexity - involving motile transformations in organisms. Complexity requires the introduction of additional concepts.

With respect,
Steven

--
Dr. Steven Ericsson-Zenith
SEMEIOSIS RESEARCH
http://www.semeiosis.com
Guy A. Hoelzer wrote: 
	 Shu-Kun et al., 
	On Aug 31, 2005, at 1:15 AM, Shu-Kun Lin wrote:
		Dear Juan,
		
		
		I reply my part:
		> Data compressed---seems related to the concept of algorithmic
		> information. But what is the definition of "data"?
		
		
		What is data? Data are the things which are or can be
		recorded in notebooks, photo plates,
		magnetic tapes or floppy disks, or hard disks, in the amount
		with unit like bytes. If the data can be compressed to a size much
		smaller, we say the original data does not have much "information".
		
		
		If there are symmetries in a structure, the data representing that
		structure can be compressed. E.g., a picture has nothing on it
		(white everywhere) has very high symmetry and little information.
	My preference is to take the data itself as information.  I know that this view contradicts the view so nicely developed by Shannon and others that information is in the eye of the beholder, requiring interpretation and evoked meaning, but this trivializes information in my opinion.  Pattern (non-random configurations of matter/energy) exists in the absence of an observer, and interpretation can only add error to the appreciation of that pattern.  Of course inductive inferences about what certain patterns might indicate are very important in human science, and I would argue also to the functioning of other sorts of dynamical (self-organizing) systems, but it seems to me that this process follows the recognition of information (pattern) rather than constituting information.  If it turns out that there is too much inertia in the interpretation-bound meaning of the term "information", then I would personally like to see the development of a term capturing the essence of inform!
 ational sources (non-random configurations), because I think this is the basis for dynamical reactions to external conditions and signal formation by self-organizing systems.
	Regards,
	Guy Hoelzer
	
	Department of Biology
	University of Nevada Reno
	Reno, NV  89557
	
	
	Phone:  775-784-4860
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