RE: [Fis] Re: What is information ?

RE: [Fis] Re: What is information ?

From: Loet Leydesdorff <[email protected]>
Date: Mon 26 Sep 2005 - 12:25:04 CEST

Dear Steven,
 
Do you mean with "embodied" embodiments in biological bodies or in bodies of
knowledge. I find it very difficult to understand that meaning has to be
embodied if this is meant biologically. However, I can accept that meaning
is systemic and thus potentially different among bodies of knowledge.
 
How does this relate to information processing? If one distinguishes between
(Shannon-type) information processing and meaning-processing (e.g., in the
generation of knowledge), the uncertainty has to be positioned within the
meaning processing system as meaningful information (different from
Shannon-type information). Investing meaning to an information can then be
considered as an operation of the selecting system. The operation is
recursive: some meanings are more meaningful than others given a body of
knowledge. Knowledge can again be communicated as discursive knowledge.
 
This is all relatively independent of the bodies involved. They provide the
historical conditions for an evolutionary process of expectations operating
selectively upon one another. Of course, the historical conditions matter
because they set the stage for this cultural evolution.
 
With kind regards,
 
 
Loet
 
  _____

Loet Leydesdorff
Amsterdam School of Communications Research (ASCoR)
Kloveniersburgwal 48, 1012 CX Amsterdam
Tel.: +31-20- 525 6598; fax: +31-20- 525 3681
 <mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net> loet@leydesdorff.net ;
<http://www.leydesdorff.net/> http://www.leydesdorff.net/

 <http://www.upublish.com/books/leydesdorff-sci.htm>
 

  _____

From: fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es] On
Behalf Of Steven Ericsson Zenith (by way of Pedro
Marijuan<marijuan@unizar.es>)
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:38 AM
To: fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: Re: [Fis] Re: What is information ?

[sorry for the delay in this posting, due to problems in our local server;
please, note that all messages during past week have been lost. They have to
be resend... --Pedro]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------

Dear Pedro and list,

Once again Pedro, I am in general agreement with your observations.

However, what you ask here is not merely for a simple definition of
information but the entire context in which such a notion can be founded.
Other definitions / notions are needed. You must define what it is to
"know" - what meaning and prediction are, for example.

I have explored this question somewhat - so let me put it out there as a
"straw man." This model takes my previous assertions regarding experience
as its premise.

In my model all metaphysics is the embodied content of experience.

Meaning is the embodied trace of experience - the physiological structure
that characterizes a product of semeiosis. Here is the cellular level
requirement - as yet determined, but let us point to neuroplasticity as a
possible example. Penrose might point to Orchestrated Objective Reduction as
another possible example - whatever, it doesn't matter at this point except
to observe that the model's architecture, when detailed, allows the
prediction of the engineering of that physiological structure.

Knowledge is the determinant of action. That is, it is revealed in action,
in sentient entities it is the product of semeiosis over the embodied
meaning set. We know how to walk by our innate embodiment of meaning - the
product of our genetics. We know how to prove the Pythagoras theorem by
acquired embodied meaning. We know how to communicate by speech because we
share a common acquired embodied convention (imperfectly).

Books, paintings, music are all marks - the subjects of signs. Signs are
the embodied experience of marks. The sun rise, the wind blowing, flower in
the field, are all marks. Marks are either natural marks - the product of
physical laws - or they are metaphysical marks - the product of intent.
Intent is the meaning embodied by the creator of a metaphysical mark in its
creation.

Semeiosis is the ongoing experience of signs - both those embodied as the
traces of experience from past semeiosis and those that are the immediate
product of senses.

So, finally, what is information? Information is that which informs - by
which we mean it identifies cause and adds to knowledge (see above
definition).

In my model I generalize the notion of knowledge so that I can apply the
notion over inanimate/non-sentient cases - I know that this generalization
makes people uncomfortable, as it does me on occasion, but it is by this
generalization that I can essentially define information simply as
"difference" in all cases and I can argue that a particle "knows" what
action to take as the product of information input. This leads inevitably
to my notion of "perfect action" ... but that will side track us here.

For completeness I should also mention my prediction model. Abduction is
the foundation of all prediction - it is the unfettered intuition.
Induction is the constraint of abduction by prior reductive experience - we
learn induction by taking apart the world and putting it back together.
Deduction is the constraint of induction by formal conventions (such as
mathematical logic) that we use in analysis and communication.

I hope this helps the discussion - I think I covered all Pedro's points.

With respect,
Steven

--
Dr. Steven Ericsson Zenith
SEMEIOSIS RESEARCH
http://www.semeiosis.com
Received on Mon Sep 26 12:25:40 2005


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