Viktoras,
if understand you well, you are talking about,
morality AND about ethics but without making
the distinction. morality as a tool ensures survival
but it needs, helas, ethics (as a reflective tool) in
order to evolve...
Sorry for this second mail
Rafael
Prof. Dr. Rafael Capurro
Hochschule der Medien (HdM) University of Applied Sciences, Wolframstr. 32,
70191 Stuttgart, Germany
Private: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany
E-Mail: rafael@capurro.de; capurro@hdm-stuttgart.de
Voice Stuttgart: + 49 - 711 - 25706 - 182
Voice private: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21)
Homepage: www.capurro.de
Homepage ICIE: http://icie.zkm.de
Homepage IRIE: http://www.i-r-i-e.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Viktoras Didziulis" <viktoras.didziulis@sci.fi>
To: <fis@listas.unizar.es>
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fis] The Identity of Ethics
> No, exactly the opposite. Ethic ensures survival of those that are
> non-fittest. And those that are fit may not like this at all :-) For
> example
> cancer cells are very fit, nearly immortal if compared to normal cells,
> but
> their survival would kill the entire system they are part of... So immune
> system has to eliminate or isolate them at any cost. One may find
examples
> in our societies as well, up to the point where those "very
fit" wish to
> supress rights of the non-fit, but something we call ethical norms
luckily
> and at least does not allow them to take any unethical action without
> being
> noticed and warned by the whole society , not just by a single
> individual...
>
> Survival of non fittest in social environment is like polymorphism in
> natural populations. It ensures survival of population (as a higher level
> system) under changing environment. Thus a population or the society as a
> higher level system somehow 'knows' about this and seeks to maintain this
> internal diversity as a mixture of fit and not-so-fit simply because
> definition of fitness may varie with changing environment. Ethics (e.G.
> Protecting everyones right to live, etc...) is a tool to ensure this
> diversity in human society too. I would say some elements of instinctive
> ethics may be observed in animal populations as well - like parental
care,
> uniting for defense against predators, defense of a buddy, etc...
>
> All the best!
> Viktoras
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic
> Date: 04/21/06 14:07:24
> To: Viktoras Didziulis
> Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es
> Subject: Re: Fw: [Fis] The Identity of Ethics
>
> Dear Viktoras and all,
>
>
> Does it mean that those who survive are by definition
"ethical"?
> The strongest and fittest organisms are those whose behavior sets the
> Norm of what is good?
>
> Do I read it correctly?
>
>
> Best wishes,
> Gordana
>
>
>
> Viktoras Didziulis wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Can't we just consider ethics as a glue of the society as a system.
If to
>> look for an analogue in non-social domains, then any action from
inside
>> or
>
>> outside the system disrupting the system is "unethical"
from perspective
> of
>> that very system. Thus eating proteins is "unethical" from
perspective of
>> proteins, because its an end to their existence :-). Behaviour of
cancer
>> cells might be conisdered unethical from a viewpoint of an entire
>> organism
>
>> In a same way criminal or unethical behavior of members in our
societies
>> lead to social, economical and psychological problems like insecure
or
>> unsafe environment, distrust leading to disintegration of social
bonds,
> etc.
>> As a system, society has means (analog to immune system) to get rid
of an
>> unethical" elements by isolating or disintegrating them - which
may seem
>> unethical" from a standpoint of those elements... Still, when
"unethical"
>> elements start to prevail, society either changes to some other form
of
>> existence (history, history!..), or disintegrates and then bond again
to
>> a
>
>> new form/structure of society, because elements may not be able to
exist
> if
>> they are not parts of something ensuring the quality of their
>> existence...
>
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Viktoras
>>
>> -------Original Message-------
>>
>> From: Rafael Capurro
>> Date: 04/21/06 10:57:42
>> To: fis@listas.unizar.es
>> Subject: Fw: [Fis] The Identity of Ethics
>>
>> From: Rafael Capurro
>> To: Jerry LR Chandler (by way of PedroMarijuan
<marijuan@unizar.es>)
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 5:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Fis] The Identity of Ethics
>>
>> Dear Jerry and all,
>>
>> Morality is a (human) fact, not different from, say, the existence of
>> chemical reactions that follow special 'rules'. We say in German that
>> Chemistry works" ("die Chemie stimmt") when we
spontaneously make
>> friends/make love (See also Goethe's
"Wahlverwandschaften").
>>
>> Of course, I am not saying that the specifity of moral imperatives
can be
>> deduced from natural phenomena whatsoever. I am just 'justifying' the
>> existence of a specific form of human reflection called ethics that
has
>> to
>
>> do explicitly with the moral phenomenon, I.e. With norms and values
that
>> rule human action in a specific community.
>>
>> These norms and values can be descriptive analyzed (no different in
>> principle as when you analyze a chemical substance and its reactions
with
>> other ones), what we call "descriptive ethics."
>>
>> We distinguish it from a "normative ethics" in which we
tentatively
> analize
>> the form and content of such systems of morals in order to
justify/change
>> them (or not) and so in order to give ourselves reasons for our
actions.
>> That we are able to give ourselves reasons for our actions, I.e. That
we
> do
>> not just act according to "unchangable" laws of nature but
that we are
> open
>> to possibilities of action makes the specificity of human action and
its
>> moral" character.
>>
>> In case these possibilities take place within the context of modern
> digital
>> communication (Internet and the like) we speak of "information
ethics"
>> (similarly to "medical ethics" in the case of situations in
which the
>> physician/patient/society are involved regarding health). In other
words,
> we
>> ask for an ethical foundation of our decisions within a digital
>> communication environment. But in a broader sense, we can say that
>> information ethics' deals with norms and values of (human)
communication
> in
>> different media. In this sense we speak for instance of library
ethics,
>> (mass) media ethics etc. Of course, the ethics of scientific
>> communication
>
>> belong to information ethics to, concerning not only, for instance,
>> plagiarism, but the very idea of sharing our (scientific) ideas with
> others
>> (which include some kind of "communism of ideas" that
interferes
>> sometimes
>
>> with the (moral/legal) rules of, say, copyright regime(S).
>>
>> The question you state about the genesis of moral (not ethical!)
behavior
> is
>> a key issue in ethical thinking for centuries (I say: moral
behaviour,
>> because this is the phenomenon we want to study, "ethical
behavior" being
>> the reflection upon it: the question about the genesis of
"ethical
> behavior"
>> is not (basically) different from the question of any other kind of
>> scientific behavior": why do we do science? For pragmatical
(survival)
>> purposes? For the seek of truth? ... In the case of ethics as
reflection
> of
>> morality, we start with this kind of reflection whe we have problems
with
>> moral rules. Ethics is a symptom. But this is a broad field of study
that
> I
>> cannot deal with now).
>>
>> So, what is the genesis of moral behavior? Why do we "feel"
obliged to do
>> the good? Is this the right question to start with? (as you see I am
> asking
>> now two different kinds a questions, an ethical and a
"metaethical"
>> (linguistic) one). We can start with the "fact" of human
will (this is
> what
>> Kant and Schopenhauer...) do, by saying that reflection (ethics) is
not a
>> (enough) motivation for moral action (as intellectualists believe).
Kant
>> believed that human reason (seeking vor universal laws) is not only
of
>> theoretical but also of practical kind. Given the fact (!) that we
are
>> capable of doing science (I.e. Of looking for the universal) means,
when
> we
>> reflect it upon our actions, that we are "compelled" to act
also
>> universallistically" which is what Kant calls, as you know, the
> categorical
>> imperative. How does this idea of universality (or of the formality
of
>> the
>
>> categorical imperative) fits with the "locality" of moral
systems/norms
> and
>> their evolution? And how do we "apply" the Kantian rule to
specific
>> situations?
>>
>> Today we are maybe less Kantians as we think because our belief in
human
>> reason and its universality is not so strong as two centuries ago. We
>> have
>
>> some good reasons (theoretial and historical ones) for being
sceptical
> about
>> it.
>>
>> But not only this, we have in the field of ethics other traditions
than
>> Western one which makes us more "humble" with regards to
our foundational
>> ambitions. In a way, this is less a negative aspect as a positive one
>> because it shows is the openness of human cultural evolution and the
kind
> of
>> ethical "indeterminacy" of human reason. But why should our
action and
>> its
>
>> foundation be less complex than, say, the life of a molecule?
>>
>> Another (older) (Western) tradition of ethics states that the task of
> ethics
>> is not primarily the fundation of morals but the "design"
of good life
> (ars
>> vitae). What we try to reflect in the information field is the idea
(the
>> ideas) of what this means in the beginning century. This kind of
ethical
>> thinking is less "normative" and more "optional".
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> Rafael
>>
>>
>> Prof. Dr. Rafael Capurro
>> Hochschule der Medien (HdM) University of Applied Sciences,
Wolframstr.
>> 32
>
>> 70191 Stuttgart, Germany
>> Private: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany
>> E-Mail: rafael@capurro.de; capurro@hdm-stuttgart.de
>> Voice Stuttgart: + 49 - 711 - 25706 - 182
>> Voice private: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21)
>> Homepage: www.capurro.de
>> Homepage ICIE: http://icie.zkm.de
>> Homepage IRIE: http://www.i-r-i-e.net
>>
>>
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Received on Fri Apr 21 17:16:07 2006
