Re: info & physics

dear fis-ers
I am glad to see that our discussion is going to "heat up" and I think that it is no coincidence that it happens when we touch a sensitive point of the whole Information discussion: Is there information in the inorganic universe?

Two things seem to be important: first, all depends from what point of view (especially from what scientific discipline) we look at the problem. Second, how we define the different concepts we are using.

So far I think that each side needs to be flexible enough, because if biologists or sociologists state that information exists only since the emergence of life on earth, Information science turns to be an exclusive discussion about genetic information and social communication.

Personally, as geologist and geochemist, I am obviously interested to see how far the concept of information can be related to the evolution of the Universe and there are plenty indicators showing, that matter, energy and information are bound in inseparable unity since our remotest idea of the origin of the universe.

It is also true that this unity goes through several steps of different qualities, where the emergence of biosystems and human society are certainly giant ones. So, what seems to be interesting is exactly to look at these different qualities and find out what they have in common.

I would like to touch very superficially some few points, how information can be related to inorganic evolution. In our point of view we can distinguish between structural, potential, pragmatic and functional information (in the sense of F. Schweitzer, 1998).

I would like to concentrate today only on structural information.

The concept of information is, at least since the works of Shannon and Weaver, closely related to the idea of transformation, emergence of the new or novelty.[1]

Let's have a look at the roots: in-formo: put something "in-to a form", gestalt, or create something. The information process is so far linked to "self formation"and alien induced transformation. That's why several authors define Information as a measure of quantity of form, or as a measure of structural organization. But it seems that even on inorganic level of evolution this is only one aspect of the information concept.[2]

There is also a large consensus through modern literature, that the concept of information is related to the idea of emergence of difference, which leads us to the concept of bit, as the unit of difference, and so far as unit of information.[3]

I think we must assume that emergence of differences in the evolution of the universe (as far as we know today) shows a consistent internal logic between the past, the present and the future. This is exactly where we talk about "transmission" of structural information.

There is no confusion between structure and information!!!! One thing is the structure of a system; another is the logic of its organization.

            At this point I would like to recall a very interesting statement of Tom Stonier (1992):"...What mass is to matter, heat is to energy, organization is to information". I definitively agree with that.

                The irreversible evolution of structures in the universe can be compared to a kind of propagation of structural differences through time. Propagation of structural difference requires at least the interaction of two main antagonic phenomena:

a) the tendency of the system toward equilibrium, or non- movement, satisfying its structural inertia and
b) the ability to respond to environmental changes by randomization and reorganization of the micro-state, avoiding the general breakdown of the macroscopic shape of the system.
            Constant interactions between both main tendencies sustain a stationary state of the system during a certain time and define what we can call "inner and outer"space of systems.[4]
Self-organization can also be seen in this context as the ability of a system to stabilize (at least) or enlarge his specific degrees of freedom[5].
So far I would say for now:
1. Structural Information is somehow a "legacy" from the past, stored in structural organization of the present.
2. To survive environmental changes, open systems must be able to respond internally by randomizing their microstate. In other words, structural Information must be actualized. External changes reach the inner space of systems as incoming signals (p.ex. waves, pulses, etc.) which are "organized" by the system-specific organization of matter. This process transforms a finite number of signals into information, giving them a system-specific "sense". Some authors call it actualization of structural Information to focus the dynamic aspect of the concept[6].

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[1]Shannon and Weaver`s idea of information (1964) is strictly related to the aspect of surprise. They dont relate the concept to any kind of meaning.

[2]C.F.Weizsäcker, op. cit.

[3]Bit: "binary digit" originally used by C.E. Shannon. See also W.Gitt "Information gehört zum Wesen des Lebens", Technische Rundschau, Nr.47, Nov. 1989, Bern. and T.Stonier, "Information and the Internal Structure of the Universe", Springer, 1990, p.32

[4]The importance of morphologic distinction between inner and outer space is generally accepted and well treated by G.Roth, "Selbstorganisation und Selbstreferentialität als Prinzipien der Organisation von Lebewesen". Dialektik, Bd.12, 1986.

[5]Personal comment: Open systems are able to respond permanently to the changes imposed by the system-environment and to maintain in a certain degree of freedom to "choose" the better way to conserve the macroscopic structure. This kind of freedom depends basically on the complexity of structure and the type of internal energy metabolism.

[6]K.Fuchs-Kittowski et al. 1976 and C.F.Weizsäcker, Ebeling (89, 94), F. Schweitzer (98).
Received on Tue May 14 16:10:53 2002