Re: [Fis] Re: Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

Steven Ericsson-Zenith wrote on 2/2/07:
>Or would you argue that war is social complexity management?

Interpreting the term as you have, I would probably present that war
is merely part of the dynamics of social systems but indicative of
the inability of single humans (or small groups) to "manage"
complexity. And of course using the notion of "management" opens
another discussion that may be illustrative of our inability to
"manage" the concepts we are about here.

Change the subject....

+++

I think we have drifted a bit from the hard problem raised. I do
believe that there are limits to complexity of any system. I believe
the limits exhibit not only in the behavior of the system as seen by
that actions of its members, but also in the abstractions those
members use in the information that is exchanged.

This group here is all about the nature of that information, yes?

My understanding is that when those information abstractions (which
evolve with the system) become overloaded, a new level of the system
is created, with new, "cleaner" abstractions.

I suppose it may be fruitless to consider the phenomenon from the
level of societies, unless you want to argue about the existence of
deities. But it might be - and I am sure of this - fruitful to look
at layers "below" us. I think there is a real lesson to be learned in
looking at how the behavior of physics produces emergent behavior
that (among other things) "breaks" abstractions at some level of
complexity to create the system of chemistry.

I recently heard Jerry Chandler speak on the difference between the
abstractions inherent in physics and chemistry and was (again) struck
at what an opportunity this affords for us to understand just what
complexity is all about and what happens when the threshold of
management is exceeded.

-Best, Ted

-- 
__________
Ted Goranson
Sirius-Beta
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