Richard,
As your namesake's character Randy Mandy might have said about the Second Law -
"Ooh, you are awful, but I like you".
If the physicists amongst us can cobble a viable and sustainable global economy out of
entropic theory I'd like to see that - more power to their intriguing elbows.
However, it may be the 'Arrow of Information' model dominant in the social sciences -
data contextualised into information applied as knowledge and filtered into wisdom
and intelligence - (or the myriad of 'brown shoe' models outside the order/disorder paradigm) prove
equally sustainable.
If all the world's entropy enthusiasts are laid end to end they may not reach finality.
Is all human thought a slave to the Second Law? C'est la question. I'm agnostic about that.
John H
-----Original Message-----
From: fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es
[mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es]On Behalf Of Richard Emery
Sent: Friday, 20 May 2005 4:22
To: Pedro Marijuan
Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: RE: [Fis] leteral comment
Pedro et al.:
Once upon a time in America the comedian George Gobel was on Johnny
Carson's TV show ,sitting next to Bob Hope and Dean Martin, and he paused
seriously, looked straight into the camera, and asked: "Did you ever get
the feeling the whole world is a black tuxedo and you're a brown pair of
shoes?"
That's what I feel when I read this exceptional forum. Thanks!
Richard Emery
> [Original Message]
> From: Pedro Marijuan <marijuan@unizar.es>
> To: <fis@listas.unizar.es>
> Date: 5/19/2005 8:51:18 AM
> Subject: [Fis] leteral comment
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> Let me produce a lateral comment after these intense preliminary rounds.
>
> I would say that numeorous aspects of the current discussion have taken a
> dubious turn around the entropy-cul-de-sac (but given that at least half
> dozen "sinners" have been indulging in pressing towards that
corner I
have
> no hope!). Rather than being "wrong" the emphasis on entropy
makes the
> discussion be "irrelevant"; and the mixing of metaphoric uses
with
literal
> ones adds further rations of arbitrarity in the discourse.
>
> Economy is not a domain of energies and entropies but of information and
> knowledge --entirely within the symbolic realm. Only one species among 10
> millions on Earth (over 40 or 50 millions?) has developed such
> sumperimposed world of "economy". Why? Just for the same
entropy/energy
> "reasons" applying to any happenstance? One needs a robust
language,
> artificial ecosystems, a counting system, a socialization network,
> elementary institutions, etc., in order than one can progressively assist
> to the emergence of universal equivalents, currencies, values, markets,
> "economic networks", cultures, etc., and realize the growth of
social
> complexity interspersed with periods of crisis, conflicts, potential
> collapse, etc. It is a whole matter which essentially derives from
"social
> processing" activities performed by intelligent, conscious
individuals.
The
> economic world advances at the same historical pace with the social
> accumulation of knowledge, and the great inventions that have changed the
> economic world are all "cognizing": writing, codices, printing
press,
sci.
> method, engines, computers... (yes, even engines themselves may be seen
as
> information & knolwedge "crystallizations" ---se Stonier).
Not only
today's
> economies are "knolwdege based" ---all of them have always
been; and all
> historical human societies have been "information societies".
>
> Unfortunately, social information is misunderstood yet (and pragmatically
> mistreated by social disciplines). How could one run a discussion on
> computing &software in entropy grounds?, not much practically indeed.
The
> same are we trying here, treating the "soft" with merely the
concepts of
> the "hard", with an arbitrary concoction. Today, the
physicalist cult is
> in-built in most ways of thinking yet--and it leads to a ping-pong game
> that obliterates the emergence of more multimensional, multidisciplinary
> reflections, badly needed for the extraordinary problems ahead: The new
> "invisible hand" needed previously demands a conceptual
revolution.
>
> Apologies for all this info-fundamentalist preaching. And thanks to both
> chairs for their recent responses--with a lot of good stuff to ponder. I
> will return to the mainstream, but always rebellious against the
cornering
> by entropy enthusiasts!
>
> all the best
>
> Pedro
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fis mailing list
> fis@listas.unizar.es
> http://webmail.unizar.es/mailman/listinfo/fis
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Received on Fri May 20 06:52:34 2005
